Thursday, January 6, 2011

Discussion

Any questions, suggestions, criticisms or comments?

36 comments:

  1. This is completely crazy! Keep up the fight!

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  2. I'm with you! I put the icon on my blog and on my website! I know someone right now whom I suspect is stealing images and using them on her "products", she even tried it with me. I just can't prove where she's getting her images from!

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  3. Hooray, so glad to see that someone has taken the bull by the horns and is fighting such theft! Kadoos to you all.

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  4. I use digi's all the time and would never dream of taking credit for the hard work and dedication of others!!! I have posted this on my blog!!

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  5. proud to put your badge on my blog, Mo! so sorry this has been going on again....

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  6. Great job!! I mentioned High Hopes and Wags 'n Whiskers supporting this, but I am also going to add this to my website for my store. www.stampandcreate.com and will see if my other design teams will post it on the challenge blogs as well.
    Keep up the great work!!

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  7. Your badge is on my blog - and will stay there. This is a great cayuse - kudos to you for bringing the matter to people's attention!

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  8. i have postedthuis on my blog!

    Betina

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  9. I have swapped stamped images and I don't see what the problem is with giving someone a stamped image that I have handstamped. I haven't shared digi images as most of the ones I have are free thanks to the genourous nature of the digital artist community.
    Some of you may shout because I have admitted to swapping images but they are freely given no money changes hands and it is within a closed group, I have been introduced to some new artists or companies through this process.
    I agree that stealing an image is wrong and you are right to highlight this and try to stop it but I don't have a problem with using an image some one has stamped for me.

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  10. Hi Scrapcat -- I appreciate the chance to talk about this and please know I'm not singling you out. :)

    However, the 'problem' here is that everyone needs to understand that each stamp company (digital and rubber equally) has a LICENSE AGREEMENT/ANGEL POLICY and by purchasing (or by receiving the image as a freebie from the copyright holder) you are agreeing to abide by it.

    You can normally find these agreements on the stamp company's website (though most of us who sell digitally also attach them to the purchase orders you receive when you purchase images) These agreements spell out exactly how you may or may not use the image. If you want to do something you're not sure is allowed, just email the company for permission or explanation.

    Freebies fall under the exact same rules as an image you pay for - they continue to belong to the artist/copyright holder and you can't pass them along. Believe me, if professional artists think people are handing out their "freebies" without permission, you will see a huge drop in freebies offered.

    When you buy a stamp -- you are NOT buying the actual image. You're just purchasing the right from the copyright holder to use that image under the exact terms of the agreement. You don't have the right to give a copy of the image to anyone else.

    You must always look at the stamp policy for a particular company -- people shouldn't even OWN a stamp if they don't understand, or plan to abide by the agreement policy. Just ask if you have questions. Because whether you agree personally or not -- copyright is recognized Internationally and violations will not be tolerated.

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  11. I understand I am not buying the image but for me breaking the copyright is claiming it is mine when I'm not, when I swap an image or send it to someone because they have admired it on a card or project it is clearly marked who made the stamp. When I say image I am refering to a rubber stamp that I or someone who has given it to me has purchased not a digital image, I just want to make sure you know I have never swapped a digi image I do tell people where to find them but I beleive that is encouraged. I have been at craft shows and other events where I have been given stamped images by the demonstrators so are you saying that is wrong too?

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  12. I know it must be hard to realize that swapping rubber stamped images is copyright infringement -- but it is. Just try telling Disney you think it's okay to hand out copies of their images as long as you don't pretend you drew it :)

    I think the crafting world is just now being able to communicate freely with the actual artists of stamp art because of the Internet -- and is learning some things they never really thought about before. In the same way, the art world is now becoming aware of the many ways our art can be misused and we're worried and want you all to understand NOW -- before we're in too deep -- that there are rules to using our art. And WE artists are the ones who make our agreement policies individually for our own work. If someone doesn't like the fact that they have to pay for use of one of my images and that they absolutely may not swap it, they should buy someone else's images. (Hey, there MIGHT be an artist out there who allows swaps. Read all the angel policies of the different companies and try to find someone.)

    This is not like pre-web times, where women swapped a couple images with their best friend, now swaps are hundreds of crafters strong, gathered in Internet forums that know no real borders.

    Music, movies, video games, -- now images (and books!). All different art forms that made a crazy-fast leap into the digital world and consumers had to realize that there were laws (or laws to be made) to stop the theft of intellectual copyright from turning into a free for all. It's important that everyone who uses digital art understand that in order for an illustrator to feel their creations are "safe" on the WWW, they have to believe that the majority of people out there are not going to hurt them and will respect their policy.

    xoMo

    PS. . . And at craft shows and events -- I'm sure the demonstrators were told by the stamp companies to give out samples. That's not the same thing as a purchaser feeling they have the right to give out images. :)

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  13. Fair enough but I am going to use the images I already have that have been given to me as to not do so would be a waste I think. I do agree with you that taking the copyright off your work and posting for anyone to take is wrong and won't take part in the swaps anymore.

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  14. I totally appreciate that, Scrapcat :)

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  15. I do understand the swap thing. They are done on SCS, PTI, Stamping Bella, etc. or they were. When I was a new stamper, it was a nice way to get to play. But it never dawned on me it was stealing. And NEVER did I ever think that some ___ was out there stealing digital images and removing watermarks (as was discussed recently on FaceBook). That said - as a user, I stand with ya'll.
    I hope lots of crafters do!

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  16. I wish that all rubber stamps "came with instructions", and educated the crafter about copyright infringement. I think that many stampers simply don't know, and once they learn, they want to do what's right.

    Another way to think about image swaps is that it's like taking a book and making photocopies of it for all of your friends.

    Fortunately, most people are good and honest, and want to do what's right. :)

    This is a great site, Mo. Thank you for opening up this discussion!

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  17. I am sorry to say that I don't agree with the reasoning behind the "don't let anyone else use your stamps" push. Rubber stamps and digital images are made to be reproduced more than once. We pay for the privelege of buying the stamp in order to use the images an unlimited amount of times. It doesn't matter if I use it myself, or my friend who comes to stamp with me on Saturday uses it. As far as I am concerned, it's the same as me buying a book written by a talented artist (Author) and lending it to the same friend when I have finished reading it. Is that against copyright too? Or, if I was to sell the book secondhand when I have finished with it, does that breach copyright? Are you saying that when I have had enough of my stamp (rubber or digital) that it is a breach of copyright to sell it to a new owner?
    You made your money once- stop your money grabbing and let us crafters use the images that we paid for. You only drew it once, yet you are selling it a million times over- unlike the famous painters/artists that you compare yourself to, who made and sold one only of their famous images. Let's compare apples with apples if we are going to have a serious discussion here.

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  18. Awesome job, Mo! It is despicable what people who know better will do. There is one company in particular out there that has been caught several times over and she just doesn't think that stealing someone else's artwork, changing one or 2 lines and calling it her own is stealing. I have reported her, but to no avail. Maybe having this blog will enlighten others as well! I would be more than happy to let you all know the company name, but I didn't want to post it without the okay. ;O)

    XXX

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  19. Leila, maybe this site will help make it easier to report! (I'm hoping!) Email me privately if you need specific help :)

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  20. Loobylou wrote (in part):

    “You made your money once- stop your money grabbing and let us crafters use the images that we paid for. You only drew it once, yet you are selling it a million times over- unlike the famous painters/artists that you compare yourself to, who made and sold one only of their famous images. Let's compare apples with apples if we are going to have a serious discussion here.”

    The artists who create and sell digital images are no different than other creators of copyrighted material. Their labor goes into creating a product that others want to purchase. To be successful, they must create a quality product and sell it at a reasonable price. No one will want to buy a poor image, nor will they want to pay $100,000 for it. To take their work and copy and distribute it is against the law. You are depriving them of the profits of their labor.

    You are free to use the images that you paid for within the guidelines of the publisher. In that spirit, if you have a digital image that you paid for, you should be able to use it as many times as you want to in your own work. You may not give the image to someone else (who did not pay the artist for it) to use. Yes the artist drew it once (or many times to get it right) then sold it many times. When a digital image is sold, the purchaser does not buy exclusive rights to the image. It is still the intellectual property of the artist, who dictates how it can be used.

    J. K. Rowling only created the Harry Potter series once. Should she be restricted to only selling it once, or should she be allowed to sell it to anyone who wants to purchase it? I can buy one of the books, but I am not allowed to copy it and distribute it to others. That is against the law. The movies that were made using her plots and characters could not be made without her permission. It is still her intellectual property.

    Lennon and McCartney wrote and rewrote hundreds of songs, polishing them to get them “right”. If the Beatles had been able to sell each song only once, no one would have ever heard of them. I can purchase their music, but I cannot copy it and distribute it to others. That is against the law. If I want to record one of their songs, I must get the permission of whoever holds the rights to it, and pay for the privilege.

    Different kinds of “artists”. Same copyright laws. Is that apples to apples enough for you?

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  21. Excellent campaign, Mo. I also put the stamp on my blog.

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  22. I actually have something bothering me. People are talking about sites they have seen copies / violations of copyrights / copiers BUT why can't there be somekind of a list us to know "places to avoid". Is it too harsh?

    For example I have some concerns about someone / something, but don't wanna yell "wolves", neither would like to support them.

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  23. Thanks Annemaritta!

    There are a couple reasons I don't post lists -- first, we don't want to direct unscrupulous people to places where they can find "free" (stolen) images.

    Secondly, we want to be certain the copyright actually is being violated first, by having the copyright owner/artist check into the situation. Sometimes just a simple email from the artist will get the images removed.

    BUT -- we will definitely publicize, in a dedicated post -- a site/person that persists in trying to distribute a participating artist's stolen work even after they have been told by the artist to remove it.

    Does that make sense? :)

    xoMo

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  24. I often see stamped images for sale on Ebay, these peeps are making a mint from the sale of these images.Am i right in thinking that one firm making stamps are now saying we can only use it for a certain number of times and then we must purchase a new one? How on earth would they know how many times you have used it? Or is this just a little rumour put about by some one to make a stir? Keep up the good work! rosie.x

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  25. I'm pretty sure I know what company you're talking about -- and you'd have to ask them to be sure -- but here's my take on it:

    No one realistically expects a customer to keep track of the number of times they use a stamp for their personal enjoyment. I believe a number like this is so the company can easily prosecute (if they needed to) a person who was CLEARLY using misusing the stamp . . . for instance someone who was trying to sell stamped images on Ebay -- or someone who was making dozens and dozens of cards with one image and trying to profit beyond terms of use for crafters. xoMo

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  26. Any chance you'll be making this a facebook page too? So we can spread the word through social media? Thanks for starting this!

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  27. Mo, this sounds like a rant against your average customer. I find this a bit offensive since I don't do any of the things you are listing. It all sounds like money grubbing. Go after the ones who are really abusing the copyright law and stop complaining to the rest of us. I will be staying away from your stamps.

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  28. I would certainly hope -- and I firmly believe that my "average customer" does not violate my angel policy. This site is not targeting them, it's asking for their help.

    For anyone who is not one of my trusted "average customers" here are the simple rules:

    If you want to use my image, you must pay a license fee. If your friend wants to use my image THEY must pay a license fee.

    You think it's money grubbing to expect payment for use of my art? I simply do not understand why some people seem to think they should be able to give away an artist's, (or writer's, or musician's) hard work for free. WHY?? Do YOU get paid when you work?? Do you want to artists to be ABLE to produce things you enjoy? Then acknowledge that they deserve to be PAID for their time and talent.

    Now THAT was a rant!

    xoMo

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  29. Mo,
    A lot of people pull hours with no pay! Many many people work lots and lots of overtime without pay. Weekends and nights! We all may not like it but it is part of life. There will be many times where you are not paid for all the uses of your work. It is part of life. Get use to it and stop complaining. YES people should not conspire to commit fraud against you or any other artist. Go after them. The average person who shares your art with a friend would be impossible to go after. You are only pushing away the average customer with your nutty complaints that they should call and ask for permission to share a printed stamp on a sheet of paper with a friend. People are not going to do that. Understand.

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  30. Um . . . how about let's compromise. You don't use my stamps -- and I won't complain when you draw your own art and share it freely.

    Thanks.

    Mo

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  31. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  32. To add a quick comment and insight: Most digi stamp shops are run by one person who is working many hours a week to bring something she loves to life. It is more a labor of love than raking in some cash.

    Like most artists, I require multiple avenues and usually a part-time job to make a minimum amount of money. Most digital stamp artists are in that same category: They have other jobs or make do as they can--it is doubtful that they are "grubbing" or rolling around in their money. LOL

    I am lucky to make any money with my art and I love what I do, so I will carry on with my art-grubbing...LOL Gotta go doodle, now. :)

    Just wanted to support Mo and the other artists trying to do the same thing. :)

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  33. I think I understand your point of view.... I do have something to think over...
    some of the stamps are so expensive that average people cannot buy them...maybe if you make them affordable so the less income people can afford to buy... maybe the copying would be less....
    you make it so black and white... I think there's a grey in between...

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  34. I agree with your initial comment, your Pictures are only 3$! I mean come on! anyone with a paypal account can afford it! what about making a much darker watermark that can't be removed on photoshop?

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  35. Anonymous said...

    Mo,
    A lot of people pull hours with no pay! Many many people work lots and lots of overtime without pay. Weekends and nights! We all may not like it but it is part of life. There will be many times where you are not paid for all the uses of your work. It is part of life. Get use to it and stop complaining. YES people should not conspire to commit fraud against you or any other artist. Go after them. The average person who shares your art with a friend would be impossible to go after. You are only pushing away the average customer with your nutty complaints that they should call and ask for permission to share a printed stamp on a sheet of paper with a friend. People are not going to do that. Understand.


    Holly: I know I'm late to the party here,,,,,but I couldn't keep my mouth closed after I read this response.

    Anonymous,,,,,just so you know,,,,there are laws against being forced to work overtime without being paid overtime,,,,,just like there are laws against stealing art.

    And if you work for yourself, and work tons of OT because of it,,,,GO YOU,,,,,you might make something of your business and be able to enjoy the fruits of that,,,,,,This is America, afterall.

    Oh wait,,,that's all the artists are asking for,,,,,to be able to enjoy the benefit of their art after spending years and years and years working for next to no pay, putting in tons of unpaid OT, etc! Gee,,,,,,whodathunkit.

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